The crusty conscience of the Democrats gets back in the saddle again

Dennis Kucinich may be the next President of the United States of America.

Wipe that smirk off your face. The representative of Ohio's 10th Congressional district boasts decades of public service, thoughtful policy proposals, and a deep commitment to his principles. (Not that any of those are requirements for the White House. Right, Mr. President?) Yet nobody seems to take Kucinich's candidacy very seriously—unlike those of, say, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

Maybe it's because, at five feet seven inches and 140 pounds, he looks more like a jockey than a head of state. Or maybe it's because his politics, a mix of '60s-style pacifism and Depression-era populism, are out of step with the centrist values that helped the Democrats recapture Congress last November. Or maybe it's because he's a born-again vegan who calls bowling a pillar of civilization and breaks into basso profundo without warning during his stump speech. We interviewed Rep. Kucinich in hopes of finding out why he believes what so few others do: that he really could go all the way in '08.

What's on your campaign itinerary today, Congressman?
Dennis Kucinich: Well, I'm in Washington doing my job as a member of Congress, and I'll be attending the State of the Union address tonight and looking forward to what the president has to say.

I wanted to ask about the speech you gave recently to the RainbowPUSH Coalition, at an event in midtown Manhattan hosted by Reverend Jesse Jackson, in which you broke into song. What was the idea of that?
The song that I was singing has to do with the plight of a miner who was loading 16 tons and talking about his fate. And that no matter how hard he worked, he couldn't get ahead. And that he owed his soul to the company store. There's still a feeling across America that many people, no matter how hard they work, they just can't get ahead. That people keep getting deeper and deeper in debt, and in fact Americans are maxed out on their credit cards, their homes are in jeopardy, and their lack of health care has created enormous financial waves. So that song, which is from many years ago, really typifies a plight of so many people.

What I'm really curious about is that after singing it you picked up the speech patterns of a black minister. Were you reflecting the energy of your audience?
The song is one that's very popular in the south and I do a lot of speaking in churches, so that's kind of where I come from.

"We lived in 21 different places by the time I was 17, including a couple cars. And people understand that experience"Barack Obama was supposed to be the scheduled speaker that day. And when he couldn't make it you stepped up and filled in. Were you worried at all that doing that would send a signal that you're a second-tier candidate?
Huh? [dead silence]

Well, you were a substitute speaker for someone who at this point is polling higher than you in national polls.
What does that mean? That doesn't mean anything. The fact of the matter is that I was invited to be there, I was glad to be there, and my presence there was very appreciated. I got a standing ovation and people there were glad to hear the view that I had, which really talked about returning to the American city.

I share a cultural experience with a lot of people who were there. I grew up in an inner-city family, the oldest of seven. My parents never owned a home, and we lived in 21 different places by the time I was 17, including a couple cars. And people understand that experience in striving to have conditions where housing is better, health care is better, and the job opportunities are there. So, for me, it was more of a homecoming—I don't take second seat to anybody!

I'm guessing you're a big music fan, not just from your recent singing performance, but from the list of musicians who endorsed your campaign in 2004, including Jello Biafra and Willie Nelson.

I do love music. And my music tastes are quite eclectic. I'm really into classical music. There's a lot of comfort in it but there's also a tremendous help in writing speeches and poetry, because the rhythms of classical music really respond to the order of the universe. You've heard about the music of the spheres? Well, I think that all composers drew their music from that world of thought, which corresponds to universal rhythms. So to me it is very important and I'm constantly listening to music of all kinds—and it's great to have the support of so many people who are in music.

Are you friendly with Willie Nelson? Have you spent time with him?
Willie's a good friend of mine. He's funny, he's a brilliant writer, he's thoughtful, and a pretty good golfer.

I didn't know that about him.
He's a very good golfer.

And I assume he supports your stance in favor of drug legalization.
Well, you know, I really haven't talked to him that much about it. I myself have never done drugs, I don't even smoke, so I'm not trying to advocate for myself here, but I can tell you that I think America is ready for some new thinking. I think the debate over medical marijuana was unfortunate, destructive, lacking in compassion. There are certain laws that relate to criminalization that should be looked at. But these are my opinions.

"I myself have never done drugs, so I'm not trying to advocate for myself here, but I can tell you that I think that America is ready for some new thinking"Speaking of green, you're one of the more environmentally thoughtful candidates running for president. Let's say that you were to win the election: As president, would you become carbon neutral, as Al Gore recently has, and refrain from traveling on Air Force One to set an example?
Well, while in my own life I try to be very sensible and sensitive in conserving energy and in the car I drive—which gets pretty good mileage ... a Ford Focus, made in the USA I might add—my priority as president would be to immediately reach out to the world community. There've been so many fractures and so much alienation that the world's waiting for an American president who can help unite it, so I would use whatever technologies we could to bring people together, and that includes whatever transportation means that are available to move around as quickly as possible. And then, as you do that, then you can communicate by e-mail—but there needs to be a lot of face-to-face so that people can see that the face of America is no longer hostile. At the same time, I want to find ways to implement immediately into mass society ways in which people can save energy and create energy usage patterns that reduce their own carbon footprint.

You would be the first vegan president in our history. If elected, would you make the White House menu all vegan?
Vegan food would be on the menu, but there'd be a choice for people who weren't vegans. There would be room at my table for everyone. It would be a friendly table.

You once said that the three pillars of civilization were—
Polka, bowling, and kielbasa!

I take it you haven't had kielbasa in a while?
I've been a vegan for about 12 years, but let me tell you, there's a place in Oregon that sells kielbasa made out of tofu and texturized protein. And they sell tofurkey too, so it's amazing what's possible when you determine to take a new direction in your diet. I wouldn't have believed it until I saw it but they do make kielbasa out of something other than what standard kielbasa is made of. You know how they say, Don't ever ask how laws or sausages are made? Well, I can attest to the wisdom of that with the exception of kielbasa made with tofu.

How about bowling? Do you still bowl?
Well sure, I keep a bowling ball nearby. I don't use it as often as I'd like, but I love bowling.

What's your high score?
I've hit over 200 a few times. I'm not the best bowler, but when I get in a groove I can do okay.

In a book called The American Mayor: The Best & The Worst Big-City Leaders, you were called the seventh worst big city mayor in a large span of American history. That's sort of a blemish on your resume.

Gee whiz.... Well, I have to tell you that when that came out it was very upsetting because what it recognized was that I didn't sell my soul as a mayor. When I was mayor of Cleveland, I made a decision to save our city's municipally owned electric system from a takeover by a giant utility and it's business partner, the city's largest bank, and on December 15, 1978, I was given a choice of either having the city's credit renewed or of selling the city's 70-year-old municipal electric system, which provided power to a third of the city at about a savings of about 20 percent. So knowing in the way I grew up that it matters how much people pay for electricity, I took a stand on behalf of the people of the city. I said no to the attempt to try to force me to sell the electric system in exchange for credit. The banks put the city of Cleveland into default—the only time it's happened in American history—I lost the next election and was promptly named one of the worst mayors who ever lived.

But you know what? If the way that I could have become one of the best mayors was to sell my soul, and to sell out the people who elected me, what do I care about titles? I didn't go into public office so people in the media would say nice things about me. I'm in there to take a stand on behalf of people. I was eventually proven to be right because the city's electric system was not only saved but it prospered and it saved the people hundreds of millions of dollars on their electric rate. The city council honored me in subsequent years because of the decision I made, and so, best, worst, what does it matter? It matters to take a stand, it matters to do what's right for the people.

"You know how they say, Don't ever ask how laws or sausages are made? Well, I can attest to the wisdom of that with the exception of kielbasa made with tofu"So what's different about this election that you think you have a chance to go all the way?
I'm at a singular position in this election. All the other candidates who were members of Congress then, who are members of Congress now, either voted for the Iraq war resolution or they voted to fund the war. Now, the most important decision that someone will make as president of the United States is whether to send troops into battle. Whether to commit this country to a war. Each of us who are members of Congress has already faced this decision and let's look at how the others have made their decisions. I'm the only member of Congress who not only voted against authorizing the war but also voted against funding the war. Particularly when we came to understand that the war was based on lies.

People, when they elect the president, are electing the judgment of the person, and I've been able to demonstrate a clarity of thought, a level of judgment, a foresight that I think people have a right to expect in a president.

You say you were the only one in Congress at the time who opposed the war. Obviously that leaves as an exception Barack Obama, who wasn't elected to the Senate until 2004.
I'm not excepting anyone. I mean, obviously, Senator Obama, who's a friend of mine, voted to fund the war. And I'm saying that whether someone voted to authorize the attack on Iraq or voted to fund the war, there's still a question of judgment. Why vote to fund a war that you know is based on lies? And it's not just Senator Obama. It's all the other candidates who were in Congress.

One more question: If you become president, you're going to be parodied on Saturday Night Live every week for your entire term. Any thoughts on who will be playing the Dennis Kucinich character?
Well, let me tell you, I'm sure whoever does will be very tall, will be very heavy, and will be conservative in their manner, and so it will be great fun watching.