Sylvia Stanard and I have been pals for years, our most recent engagement was on the jtfoxx talk show in chicago a few weeks ago, you can listen to me and sylvia going at it here:

http://www.jtfoxxshow.com/archive_0307.html

She admitted that the story of xenu is true, which viewers of South Park and most of the netizens of the world already knew.

http://www.lermanet.com/xenu-in-southpark-is-real.htm

Previously I ran into Sylvia in front of the French embassy on Resevoir Road,in Georgetown, she was out there with a few scientologists protesting France's passage of the Mental Manipulation law.

I, read out loud, from memory, the once confidential materials in their upper levels called OTIII, the xenu story, she gathered up her flock and left but before she left, she came over and told me one thing:

"After we finish running Bob Minton out of his money we are coming for you"

I appreciate RAZOR Magzine's candor and courage to tell it like it is, reading this article, makes the last tough 15 years, worth it.

Regards

Arnie Lerma
and the Ex-members of Scientology
at Lermanet.com Exposing the CON

Thank YOU RADAR! And Thank YOU Arnie! Seriously, I go to your site practically everyday and research the load of crap Scientology preaches (along with others as well). I thank you for standing your ground, refusing to back down and helping to educate the public. Mad props to you dude!

There was a radio broadcast from BBC done about the Volunteer Ministers a while back. In this radio broadcast, a reporter records Scientologists bragging about "keeping psychs away" undercover.

Keeping "psyches" away for "spiritual security"

This broadcast also shows how the "Volunteer Ministers" were using other tragedies for recruitment and PR.

http://tinyurl.com/g932v

The Tinyurl I linked is to the radio show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afULJrWAlrQ

Volunteer minister propaganda piece

A transcript of the BBC radio show is at
http://www.daisy.freeserve.co.uk/stolgy_23.htm

Kudos to John Cook for taking the time
to investigate the Cult of Scientology and prove that they lied and deceived not just Virginia Tech, but that they did this to their own parishioners in order to get them to think that Scn is
really something that is liked and wanted.

I spent a good deal of my life in
the Scn cult and was constantly deceived by outright lies.

I am so happy that you exposed what they do and that it will be read by Scientologists that maybe sitting on the fence. Hopefully it will open some
eyes.

Patty Pieniadz

Despite the cynicism proferred by disaffected Scientology members to this forum I think it would be ironic if the outcome of the VT shootings would be a call for more psychiatric psychiatric drugging. This horrific tragedy from my perspective underscores the incompetence of psychiatry. Why did this deranged young man go on his rampage AFTER treatment instead of before? Why is it nearly every mass shooting involves a person on antidepressants? I think these are fair questions to ask. I support the volunteer ministers efforts to console the grief-stricken who would turn to them for a non-psychiatric solution to their pain and sorrow. To put them down as carpetbaggers is mean spirited.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3806579221436766245

I don't anything about OT-3 or a "Xenu" - but would venture to guess most people believe we are not alone in this universe. Maybe you can explain this aerial phenomenon and thousands of others like it. Just food for thought.

Despite the cynicism proferred by disaffected Scientology members to this forum I think it would be ironic if the outcome of the VT shootings would be a call for more psychiatric psychiatric drugging. This horrific tragedy from my perspective underscores the incompetence of psychiatry. Why did this deranged young man go on his rampage AFTER treatment instead of before? Why is it nearly every mass shooting involves a person on antidepressants? I think these are fair questions to ask. I support the volunteer ministers efforts to console the grief-stricken who would turn to them for a non-psychiatric solution to their pain and sorrow. To put them down as carpetbaggers is mean spirited.

The first purpose of the Volunteer Ministers is to disseminate Scientology. This is what can be understood from internal policy letters, and this is what we witness whenever VMs run to the site of a tragedy.

Consider:

"One takes every daily paper he can get his hands on and cuts from it every story whereby he might have a preclear. He either has the address in the story itself or he gets the address as a minister from the newspaper. As speedily as possible he makes a personal call on the bereaved or injured person. [...] He should represent himself to the person or the person's family as a minister whose compassion [sic] was compelled by the newspaper story concerning the person. He should then enter the presence of the person and give a nominal assist, leave his card which states exactly where church services are held every Sunday and with the statement that a much fuller recovery is possible by coming to these free services takes his departure. A great many miracles will follow in his wake and he is liable to become a subject of the press himself. However, in handling the press he should simply say that it is a mission of the church to assist those who are in need of assistance. He should avoid any lengthy discussions of Scientology and should talk about the work of ministers and how all too few ministers these days get around to places where they are needed."
-L. Ron Hubbard, PAB of 28 February 1956

Or this one:

" Don't pick on the very bad off [sic] unconscious cases. Hit the fracture ward and the maternity ward. Go around and say hello to the people and ask if you can do anything for them. [...] This is a pretty routine drill really. You get permission to visit. You go in and give patients a cheery smile. You want to know if you can do anything for them, you give them a card and tell them to come around to your group and really get well, and you give them a touch assist if they seem to need it but only if they're willing. [...] Its [sic] straight recruiting!"

-L. Ron Hubbard, HCOB 15 September 1959

The full essay (well sourced):
http://www.spaink.net/cos/essays/owen_ambulance3.html

And remember, on Scientology's scale of emotion ("Tone scale"), "Hate" and "Hostility" are more valued state of mind than "Sympathy" and "Grief"...

R. Hill, So What. You might just as cynically say the first purpose of the Catholic Church is to spread Catholicism. They have charities, do they not? And orphanages, hospitals, soup kitchens, etc? In the case of Scientology VM's there is no proselytizing of a religious belief; just Scientology counseling and assists to be considered for what they're worth. Want to find out more? You're free to contact Scientology and. That hardly sounds coercive to me. BTW, according to the same "Emotional Tone Scale" "Cheerfulness" and "Contentment" are more valued states of mind than "Hate" and "Hostility".

In response to the comment that dared mention Scientology and Catholism int he same paragraph.

L Ron Hubbard said:-------------------

THE MAN ON THE CROSS, there was NO CHRIST.--------------- Link in on LERMANET.COM main page--------------
AND-------
the ONLY THING THAT WORKS IN SCIENTOLOGY IS HYPNOSIS... Hubbard was a master stage hypnotist...---------------------
"The "facsimiles saying that scientologists are swindlers do not constitute insults since the church of scientology has already been convicted in our country for swindle (JT 1994 IV 140)"-----------------------------------------------

"Scientology's purpose is making money by means legitimate and illegitimate" (US District Court, Southern District of New York, 92 Civ. 3024 (PKL) ---------------------All this was and is false -- in short, a fraud. " Federal District Judge Gesell 333 F. Supp. 357; 1971 U.S. Dist------------------
THIS IS TRUE!

Google "Scientology at Ground Zero" to see a similar perpetuation of fraud. It's time to remove the "minister,faith and charity" semantics and explain the terms of fraud. These scammers went in and gained confidence by getting someone elses name and even passed it along to connive their way in. This is L Ron Hubbard's idea for the masses to take humans in a fearful or vulnerable state and start using the power of suggestion to have them come in to the nearest $cientology outlet. They want to help allright, help you into hypnosis and empty your wallets. They will use this as a photo op also, to put on their website, to gain confidence into the next disaster. They "PREY" on disaster.

Google "Scientology at Ground Zero" to see a similar perpetuation of fraud. It's time to remove the "minister,faith and charity" semantics and explain the terms of fraud. These scammers went in and gained confidence by getting someone elses name and even passed it along to connive their way in. This is L Ron Hubbard's idea for the masses to take humans in a fearful or vulnerable state and start using the power of suggestion to have them come in to the nearest $cientology outlet. They want to help allright, help you into hypnosis and empty your wallets. They will use this as a photo op also, to put on their website, to gain confidence into the next disaster. They "PREY" on disaster.

This Scientology-bashing is getting old, must be more obviously incredible to readers. I was with the Scientology Volunteer Ministers at Ground Zero, and they were very much appreciated, so much that the VMs received commendations from officials who actually there -- which did not include any of your anti-Scientology "experts", but did include Chief of Police Esposito. Any of your readers would only have to search the online archives of the NY Times to see a September 2001 article detailing the work of VMs at Ground Zero. Why not go back to bashing someone who deserves it, instead of those who are actually helping improve things.
Barbara Jacome, Manhattan

Doesn't anybody else besides me think it odd that some folks criticize a church and its members for their unbiased help in such a time of need, especially when there is a shortage of people in this country who are willing to help? I've seen these Scientology volunteers in action and I've seen then on tv. Who cares what their motives are? What I saw was yellow shirted people talking with victims and doing things that gave them relief. I saw smiles on the faces of those who were previously upset or worried. What's not right about that?

I am certain that Scientology people "show up" at disaster area only to lend assistance. I saw no recruiting taking place,as others who posted here would have you believe. The govt. officials at the Pentagon supported the actions of these volunteers. As did the victims of Katrina, as did the NYC police and fire depts.

Uh, actually, the New York City Police and Fire Departments removed their support for Scientology VM's, and the 'purif' rundowns, after they realized what they were really up to. Also, that the sauna's wer a bunch of quackery. Go figure.

If Scientology is so great, they why do they have a policy of 'fair game'? Why does the most ethical group on earth, as they claim, encourage lying about others? Why do they have members 'disconnect' from family and friends? Why do they have a policy of declaring others as 'suppressive persons' or 'sp''s? Why do they use the term 'wog' to describe non-scientologists? Wog is the British version of the word 'nigger', a nasty term for someone of a darker race. Why are 'empathy' and 'sympathy' so low on the tone scale of Scientology, that if someone feels these emotions, they are considered dysfunctional?

Why did a scientologists, born and raised, who was not taking psychatric medication because it is against church policy, stab his mother 77 times? While his sister goes around claiming she can help anyone with mental illensses in a video on youtube? Why did another scientologists walk into an org and shoot people? Why did Lisa McPhearson die covered in cockroach bites in the Churches Clearwater headquarters?

It's about an organization that lies and deceive in time of tragedy. It's about an organization that pray on vulnerable people in time of tragedy - as dictated by this organization *policies*, for recruitment purpose as clearly *mandated* by the founder of this religion.

Good and decent people have a problem with that kind of despicable behavior. Generosity should come unconditionally, without an big advertising sign attached to it.

Listen we are there to prey on you and your money. Hubbard was a very wise con and we will carry on our mission to prey on the pain of many to fill our coffers.
What other so called "religion" charges thousands of dollars to be a member, or I mean donate? Hail Xenu!
When you sit down with your kids to discuss drugs, don't forget to warn them about cults...parasites.

You've got to be kidding me.

The issue here is that 32 people were senselessly killed, the community needs support, many people of many faiths have offered that help and all those volunteers should be commended and encouraged to continue. I'm a Scientologist and am happy that members of my church have been there to lend a hand, as they have when disasters have befallen other areas of the world. But the religious affiliation of the volunteers is irrelevant - I'm more heartened just to see that people, of whatever faith, have been moved to help and are doing so. The point is that they showed up. For some posters, who don't appear to have been anywhere near the campus, to use this forum to regurgitate yap-yap and personal prejudices is just sad: is it possible they could have forgotten so quickly what happened at VT? Prejudices aren't important here, individual religious convictions aren't important - the lives and reactions of the people who lived through it are. Perhaps a little focus on what's really important - the lives of those affected - might be appropriate for at least a couple of days.

You've got to be kidding me.

The issue here is that 32 people were senselessly killed, the community needs support, many people of many faiths have offered that help and all those volunteers should be commended and encouraged to continue. I'm a Scientologist and am happy that members of my church have been there to lend a hand, as they have when disasters have befallen other areas of the world. But the religious affiliation of the volunteers is irrelevant - I'm more heartened just to see that people, of whatever faith, have been moved to help and are doing so. The point is that they showed up. For some posters, who don't appear to have been anywhere near the campus, to use this forum to regurgitate yap-yap and personal prejudices is just sad: is it possible they could have forgotten so quickly what happened at VT? Prejudices aren't important here, individual religious convictions aren't important - the lives and reactions of the people who lived through it are. Perhaps a little focus on what's really important - the lives of those affected - might be appropriate for at least a couple of days.

To you "You got to be kidding"... no I am not. This is not about discrimination or predjudices, I was in the cult for 30years so Please don't pontificate to me or any one else that found their way back to the freedom. Gee I thought $cio'$ didn't have to defend their cult. My point is that $cio'$ use this as a recruitment tool, it's a ruse $cio'$ use to prey on the injured. Educate yourself, log on to www.operation clambake, or xenutv.com. I hope you wake up and "confront" the real world, if not the free are going to tell the truth and protect others from joining this insidious cult.
You want to help these young people then stop defending and pushing cults.
Offer help without an agenda.

scientology can call us bigots and hateful all day long. That doesn't change the lies in the e mails. Why claim they were not just invited but asked to come to the school?
Why keep them out? Because part of what they do is keep trama victims away from true trained doctor's and therpist. At this time in their lives these kids need real help, not some VM's telling everyone therpist are nazi's and meds kill everyone.

Jerald, VT's mass tragedy at the hands of a psychiatric patient underscore what I've been saying for years: Psychiatrists don't know what the hell they're doing. How big a body count does it take to impress you? This guy was on psychiatric medication - should have been handled, right? These drugs are to unstable individuals almost what Psychadelic mushrooms were to the Viking Berserkers: they numb the individual while inducing violent psychotic episodes and suicidality; even in patients with no such prior history of such ideations. I would sooner let them smoke opium to ease their pain than take a psychiatric drug - but Scientology has proven even that's not necessary. With the proper spiritual counseling a non-communicator like Mr.Cho could have been brought up to normal or at least not dangerous, in short order. Putting the student body who witnessed this tragedy on the same psych regimen doesn't sound like a solution to me. If Scientology VM's can make that point in treating the aftermath, (which I support) more power to them - which is exactly what you fear: mainstream acceptance. Whine and complain all you want, Scientology is thriving and here to stay. The real vultures capitalizing on tragedy are the drug companies who'll try to push their nostrums on the victims of psychiatry's own timebombs and perpetuate the same.

Here is a Scientologist blog with almost the same text:
http://jetteroheller.wordpress.com/2007/04/18/volunteer-ministers-needed-to-assist-after-va-tech-shooting-2/
Get a copy now before it disappears down the Memory Hole like the original Call to Arms message board posting at http://www.therazzline.net/2007/04/21/vms-needed-at-virginia-tech/

Real help seems pretty basic and obvious.....food, shelter, medicine, blankets, referrals to professional resources, i.e., people with credentials like a nurse or a doctor. These folks don't give ANYTHING of substance. They are trying to get people to sign up for courses. Most charities will give you food, etc. and never have any expectation that you will come and pay for expensive courses or services. These folks are not like other churches or charities.

But...you can't blame them, they don't have anything of substance to give. They pay their own expenses to travel to these events, most of them get paid about $30 or some ridiculous amount per week in salary, they work for the church for almost nothing. They should really be asking for help not pretending that they have any ability to give it. If the people they are trying to recruit knew what their lives were like they would and they should run for ZZZZZZ hills.

We want you gone. We wish you'd never come.

I'm a Tech senior, ME major w/ poss. English minor. This gives me the lucky distinction of knowing both the shooter and the people he killed. First off, Seung NEVER GOT treatment. [[alpanp, i'm talking to you.]] He was ordered to by a judge, but never did.

And as for YOU, daden! Here's some yap-yap for you from someone who's called campus her home for the last four years: You know why despite other religions I'm unaffiliated with sending chaplains, I'm not complaining about them? Because they didn't set up a Giant Yellow Tent directly in front of our memorial on Friday. And they weren't handing out blue mini-flyers in front of the Lyric on Saturday. (Thanks for littering our downtown, by the way!)

The only reassurance is that we never saw anyone talking to them more than politeness dictated.

LRH = paranoid schizophrenic writer
Seung Cho = paranoid schizophrenic writer

Get the hell out of our town and don't come back.

Also Friday everyone in the country was supposed to wear maroon and/or orange to show support, you yellow-shirted putzes.

If $cientologists care about helping others, they should start with taking care of their own staff members. My parents worked in $cientology's "Sea Org" for 25 years. When they became too elderly to be of use, they were "offloaded." They now live in poverty and receive government assistance to pay basic bills to survive. $cientology staff members receive almost no pay, no health insurance, no retirement and are required to work 7 days a week, over 12 hours a day. The Sea Org staff are not even allowed to have children. My parents joined before this rule was in effect. Not a very compassionate "church" is it? Please don't let this cult victimize more people!

Here's a question for you Scientology folk: Since obviously you guys are so against psychiatry and the use of helpful and useful meds...why then was your founder found DEAD with the psych drug Vistaril in his system? Or no wait I'm sorry maybe you should talk to Davis Miscavige about that...since he then requested that NO autopsy be performed. Hmm, sounds like some sort of a cover up if you ask me! Oh but wait...you scientology peeps can't access the same websites that us normal free folks can b/c your dictators provide you with software that completely and conveniently I might add block out absolutely anything about your religion. Why is that exactly? Why would you not promote the exploration of your so called "religion"? Last I heard you didn't have to pay to believe in any religion either, another VALID reasoning behind many people's questioning of the cult.

dontstalkme-

I am sorry for your pain and the many others on campus.
Thank you for exposing the con and again my condolences.

Scientologists participate in relief efforts for the same reason anyone else participates in relief efforts: to help other people.

And that is truly what the critics can't stand, that help is given and it is effective in alleviating the trauma of any given situation. They may give other red herring answers like 'money' or 'recruitment' but, really, they just can't stand Scientologists helping other people and doing good works. They will NEVER speak positively of that because their anti-social natures just won't let them. They are victims of their own personal ghosts.

I personally know of Scientologists who worked the Katrina disaster site for weeks. Not only did they provide assists but they also coordinated medical aid and distribution of food, clothing and shelter.

How many of the Scientology critics did anything?

I'm certain neither Lerma nor Patty Pieniadz never left their houses to help the victims of Katrina. They were probably too busy frothing at the mouth, condemning Scientologists for helping other people.

I know Scientologists who flew to Indonesia and other areas affected by the tsunami. I know they not only provided assists but brought together families that were torn asunder, they also helped in food and water distribution and any other manner in which help was needed.

Detractors of Scientology take every single opportunity to capitalize on any attempt that Scientologists take to help other people. They then spew forth their hate and bigotry. They are prime propagandists, feeding off their hate and patting each other on the back for their latest insult and ranting tirade.

But the one thing they won't provide is help freely given other than to further their own goals of recruiting more hatemongers.

I recommend http://www.parishioners.org/anti-religious-extremists as a site to put faces to the names of some of the rabid critics who have posted their insane rantings here.

This forum should be showing support to the families of the victims of the shooter in Virginia. And Radar should really learn about unbiased reporting and perhaps providing relief to the victims as well.

Speaking of self-aggrandizement, Radar seems to be capitalizing on the tragedy in a less than helpful way.

Bravo, Blingo. Living up to your dear leaders command to always attack, never defend.

Must be such a relief for you, and the bonus is it leaves you without the need to resort to something as silly and negative as critical thinking. After all, if you defend your great mission you might have to think about what exactly you are doing to "help". Can you actually do that I wonder, defend your great mission? Can you even articulate it? Don't tell us, though, just whisper it to yourself. Go ahead...I mean it is a great cause, right? The greatest cause even?

Anyway, I notice that you say that the VM's "coordinated medical aid and distribution of food", "helped in distribuition of food and water".....Oh yeah and assists, what is that exactly because it sounds like "blah, blah, blah" to me?! So here is my question for you did Scientology -the church, not the poor VM workers - actually pay for any of that food or water or medical aid? We all know you folks make a big show out of being there and toting and what not.

Oh and did the church pay the plane fare, expenses, anything for the VM's to fly to Indonesia? Didn't think so. I bet that you all probably can barely scrape together enough to feed yourselves after paying for the everything out of your own pocket. So actually providing any help of substance is out of the question? So very, sad you are.

The huffing and puffing at Radar, by the way is so very 90's. You folks have the "internets" to contend with now, try to keep up.
But, hey, it's for the great, what was the cause again?

Wow Blingo, the only one I see ranting is you. Do you think by using peoples real names it will stop them? How silly and it only proves you are part of scientology.
As for the silly site you list, I do hope everyone visits that site. It's a scientology hate site that is full of lies and half truths. Funny how a ummmm church feels the need to run sites like that.
As for your silly little rant here, I notice you had nothing to say about the story at hand. About scientology being caught yet again in lie's. Again not quite the way I would expect a ummm church to act.
But lets get to the heart of the matter. I don't care if these VM's are kind and thoughtful people doing what they can to help. It just doesn't matter when their main goal here is to keep trama victim's from trained doctor's and therpists. That is the sickest part of what scientology is doing there.
They are trying to keep hurting people from getting real help. How can you defend such action's?

Wow Blingo, the only one I see ranting is you. Do you think by using peoples real names it will stop them? How silly and it only proves you are part of scientology.
As for the silly site you list, I do hope everyone visits that site. It's a scientology hate site that is full of lies and half truths. Funny how a ummmm church feels the need to run sites like that.
As for your silly little rant here, I notice you had nothing to say about the story at hand. About scientology being caught yet again in lie's. Again not quite the way I would expect a ummm church to act.
But lets get to the heart of the matter. I don't care if these VM's are kind and thoughtful people doing what they can to help. It just doesn't matter when their main goal here is to keep trama victim's from trained doctor's and therpists. That is the sickest part of what scientology is doing there.
They are trying to keep hurting people from getting real help. How can you defend such action's?

Dear 'Blingo',

Here is what Scientologists were telling each other at Ground Zero:

"we are trying to move in and knock the psychs out of counseling to the grieving families [...] The other religions here with their ministers have shown their true colors and are working hand in hand with the psychs to give these people as much false data and restimulation as they can. They HAVE NO TECH and they're not even trying to hide it anymore. They've crossed over and abandoned anything spiritual and to hell with them."

And now the VMs are caught lying. Again. It would seem the VMs believe that only *their* help is of value, and if they have to lie in order to "help" people in need, with their "infallible tech" so be it...

How about: stop the lies, stop the deception, remove the yellow shirts, get rid of the pamphlets. Help without asking anything in return. Real compassion doesn't need to be advertised. It's the individuals that are helpful, not the corporation for which they work. (A corporation has no soul) But well, Scientology founder didn't know about compassion, and Scientologist have to share the founder's world view without compromise, so I don't expect improvement any time soon.

L. Ron Hubbard's words: "I am not interested in wog morality. I am only interested in getting this show on the road and keeping it there."

Well here's a simple answer to yet one more Scientology Internet slugfest. Ask the participants who have gotten assists the following: a)Did it cost you anything? b)Did it do you any good? c)Do you have any regrets? That should settle this matter once and for all. All the rest is nonsequitur.

I don't think those questions need answering alpanp, all you have to do is go read what dontstalkme wrote. "All the rest is nonsequitur." =)

I don't think those questions need answering alpanp, all you have to do is go read what dontstalkme wrote. "All the rest is nonsequitur." =)

Alright, let's talk about these "assists". While walking somewhere two days ago, Nyssa and Meredith were stopped by two VMs. They were offered 'nerve assists' with big smiles and claims that it was "better than a massage!" They turned it down b/c there's actually a team of volunteer masseuses in town that any of us could visit instead of letting some random person with a plastic smile poke us. It cost them a minute of their time (because they took the time to politely decline instead of outright ignoring) and they have no regrets. As for the 'locational assist', I looked it up in the handbook linked to in your fake press-release. You know, the one that calls my provost Mark McNamee a she/her. Here's an example of how that would go if you were standing on the South end of campus. "Look at that building." "That's AJ, that's where Stack and Emily died." "Look at that picnic table." "That's where Stack used to stand around and bullshit with everyone." Never mind that the only end result of this craptastic exercise is that you forget what was bothering you instead of addressing it. My point is that maybe when you do it YOU SHOULDN'T BE WHERE A HORRIBLE EVENT HAPPENED. Unfortunately this happened in our home, so it's kind of hard to get away from. Why are you still here? I thought you'd left, but Nat says he was accosted by you on campus yesterday. Hand to God, if you stick around beyond the end of this week we will call the cops on your collective ass.

Good to see that Hokies know a scam when they see one.

The really sinister part is that the low-level scienos don't know anything. They're kept from knowledge of Scientology's history of kidnapping, blackmail and murder. The drones are usually kind idealistic kids who genuinely think they're helping save mankind, when they're just being used by the higher-ups in Clearwater to rake in more converts (and thus more money) for the church.

Nothing makes me as sick as scienos.

Good to see that Hokies know a scam when they see one.

The really sinister part is that the low-level scienos don't know anything. They're kept from knowledge of Scientology's history of kidnapping, blackmail and murder. The drones are usually kind idealistic kids who genuinely think they're helping save mankind, when they're just being used by the higher-ups in Clearwater to rake in more converts (and thus more money) for the church.

Nothing makes me as sick as scienos.

"... The only reassurance is that we never saw anyone talking to them more than politeness dictated..." If this was the case, the VM's presence was at worst benign. I beg to differ on whether or not Seung Cho was given treatment - it's been widely reported he was on antidepressants, that's still a "psychiatric treatment", even if he refused counseling. It was also reported his behavior became more bizarre after the medication. Any community outreach programs (however non-religious) sponsored by Scientology are given the same sneer by the same people, regardless of who benefits from them. I feel the people who benefit from these programs should have access to them, with all due respect to the sensitivities of those who are grieving - if they choose to be counseled or given assists by a Scientologist there's no rational reason stop them.

Alpanp said " it's been widely reported he was on antidepressants"
---------------------------------------

Yes it sure has, By scientology in many different press releases using many front groups.
Any group whom has a main goal of keeping students from seeing real trained doctors and therpists should be removed from the school grounds.

Its a sick bunch that would use the deaths of children to promote their uneducated views.

JeraldR: Source: New York Post - circulation over 1 million. To me that's widely reported. I never read or heard anything from CCHR.

I'm a freezone scientologist and no friend of the Church of Scientology. I left affiliation with the church during the big schism of '82 due to the corrupt practices and blatant misdirection of the church's management. I have since that time continued my use of scientology tech outside the church along with other likeminded "freezoners".

Nevertheless, I commend the church's VM's for their efforts at VT in using a little of the basic locational & assist "tech" to help to relieve the trauma that victims of this horror have experienced. A little help can make a BIG difference to people in such circumstances.

A little help from TRAINED professionals would be a better idea.